TRANSCRIPT
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#107 - The Hidden Cost of Caregiving and Why Families Need a Plan
Eric Blake: Welcome to another episode of the Simply Retirement Podcast. I am your host, Eric Blake, practicing retirement planner for over 25 years, founder of Blake Wealth Management, and I would not be the man I am today without the women in my life.
On today’s episode, I’m joined by Lina Supnet-Zapata, CEO of Mir Care Consultants. Today, Lina works with families navigating the complexities of aging and elder care, helping them make informed decisions around care, coordination, and the many moving pieces that come with this stage of life, especially during times of transition.
But part of the reason I invited Lina on is because of her own personal experience navigating these challenges within her own family. So Lina, welcome to the Simply Retirement Podcast.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Thank you, Eric, for having me this morning. I appreciate it.
Eric Blake: Absolutely. I’m really excited about this. We always talk about what’s negative and positives about social media, but I think this is really one of those positive opportunities that we have had the chance to get to know each other just a little bit, at least through LinkedIn.
And a few months ago, I shared a post on LinkedIn about a woman who told me that she had never once spoken to the financial advisor managing their family’s money, even after 20 years of marriage. And at the time, she was in the middle of divorce, no real clear picture of what she had or what her future was going to hold.
And it raised a really bigger question for me about how often women are still left out of these conversations, but also what I would call, nicely I’ll say, shortcomings in our industry.
And you actually commented on that post and shared part of your own experience with your mother. And when I read that, I knew there was something much bigger that we had to get out here, and I wanted to invite you on the podcast.
I would love to open with that and just give you the opportunity to share your story.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes, absolutely. Thank you.
Yes, I saw your post and really triggered me to respond. I kind of glean over everything, but that was actually kind of like a trauma response.
My father and my parents had a 30-year relationship with a financial advisor and with a family financial advisor. And I just remember throughout the years that this financial advisor would come over once a quarter, bring all my mom and dad’s statements.
They would review it. My dad was very kind. They’d have wine. They’d have dinner. It just became like a routine. “Oh, so-and-so’s coming over. Okay, great.”
And it was interesting because my dad was the more engaged, and my mom would be furiously taking notes and just really keeping an eye on it, which sometimes, behind every great man is an even greater woman.
My mom managed silently the finances, but she let my dad talk and engage.
So when my dad was diagnosed in 2016 with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, literally had 363 days with him from diagnosis to his passing, and I became, really now my medical and durable powers of attorney kicked in.
Because at that time, unbeknownst to us, my mom was already exhibiting the signs, and did not tell the children, of Parkinson’s disease. She was having really erratic mood swings and just wasn’t like the mom that we knew.
Both my parents are retired physicians, military physicians, so her education and her professionalism just reverted back to somebody that was always angry and these really significant mood swings, and we didn’t know why, but they were keeping it from us.
So she also was not able to, because of the time of life where my dad was dying, to really be present and kind of manage these things that were happening.
We had to pay for long-term care. I had to activate their long-term care insurance. A host of things that were too overwhelming, but it was overwhelming for me too.
I’m the daughter.
So when my dad passed, let’s fast forward, when my dad passed, the 30-year relationship with that financial planner did not even warrant a condolence card, flowers, expressions of, “Hey, really sorry that your dad passed away.”
What it did result in is coming over to my mom’s, where she was living, we moved her into an assisted living, and, “Could you please sign the paperwork for the payable upon death?”
“And we’re going to transfer from a joint account to a single account.”
And I said, “Well, wait a minute. What do they have?”
I mean, I knew they had retirement and they saved very well for themselves, but what are we talking about here? How are we going to take care of my mom? What are going to be the investments? Can you explain it to us?”
And he said, “Well, this is the way that your dad always did it.”
Without any education to the daughters and one son that were managing and making decisions for my mom, because she could no longer really have that.
And then didn’t treat us very well. And I’m thinking, I have children. This is a legacy. This is a legacy that my parents are leaving that we will inherit, and I want my kids to understand and know what they’re coming into.
How do you invest wisely? How do you know how to cash in and get funding if we need it, if Mom and Dad need it?
I felt like we were left guessing.
And the learning lesson there is that I think that conversations with the financial planner, the advisor, need to happen with another generation involved.
But that experience really upset me, and I just felt like, wow, you’re not relational, you’re transactional.
And that didn’t sit well with me, so I withdrew all of the funds and transferred them to another investment firm. Somebody that understood and took the time and asked the questions, had the meetings, informed us.
We’re reasonably intelligent family members. It’s just not our wheelhouse, so we just need to have an explanation and then we’ll get it.
But we have a right to know.
And it felt like we were being intrusive in my parents’ affairs rather than being a part of it.
So that was my experience, and I was really upset that for 30 years this guy had been coming over.
Eric Blake: Right.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: And we didn’t even get a condolence from him, and that’s why I said that’s not a relationship that I want to have with somebody that doesn’t care.
Eric Blake: Was there anything you felt like the advisor actually coming over in that scenario, and not showing condolences and most likely being more proactive in that way, is there anything you felt like he could have done earlier on?
Was it, you know, there’s a lot of talk about something we try to focus on called a family meeting, where we do things, and it may not be a formal meeting, but in some form or fashion, how can we at least make sure the family knows who we are and what we do and how we do it for their parents?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes. So from an advising standpoint, from a care advising standpoint, I’m a care strategist. I recently spoke to the Financial Planning Association, and I said we need to normalize the conversation because usually the financial advisors are the ones that see and hear things first.
Maybe they don’t know how to listen for the cues, but what I’m educating on is listen for the cues, or encourage, because it’s not a one and done.
My parents had a 30-year relationship. I probably would have come in in my late 20s or 30s, but was there a cue to say, “Hey, Nori, I think that we need to, whoever you’ve appointed as your financial authority when you can’t make that decision anymore, we need to have them in.”
And they may shut it down, but then we have got to ask again because then it’s like, if we don’t, this is the result that could happen if you don’t have that early conversation.
Eric Blake: Well, and I think it’s one of those things, and unfortunately financial advisors, at least from my experience, you almost have to go through something personally to have that awareness of, “Hey, maybe I should think about this.”
And I hate to say that I’ve experienced some of that, but my grandmother actually turns 91 in less than a week.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Bless her heart.
Eric Blake: She’s still at home. She can’t move around like she used to. She’s got 24/7 care.
But obviously that’s where, fortunately being her financial advisor, I know the people involved.
But those conversations are difficult, even with family. And I think that’s one of the things that I have tried to be as conscious of as I can, saying, “Okay,” even if it’s as simple as saying, “Hey, let’s think about your trusted contact.”
Who’s your trusted contact? If I can’t reach you or if I feel like something’s wrong, who would you want me to reach out to?
And let’s just get that name, get their phone number, make sure we’ve had some communication.
But I think it almost takes that personal experience, having gone through something challenging like that before you can have some of that awareness.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes, and this personal experience actually has helped me even as I counsel daughters and adult sons and daughters to, if you don’t know how to access your parents’ financial resources, you have got to start that conversation with them.
It’s almost like the 40/70 rule. If they’re in their 40s and parents are in their 70s most likely, it’s kind of like start having that conversation.
And again, it’s not a one and done.
Sometimes we have adult children that have obstinate parents that are going to dig their heels in.
But I also say if that’s the case, then you also need to prepare yourself. Prepare yourself for what’s to come.
And in talking to financial planners and legal professionals, we plan for the care. You all set these wonderful plans for the care that is supposed to happen, but we don’t talk about the care.
Eric Blake: Like...
Lina Supnet-Zapata: We’re going on a journey. We’re going on a care journey.
We set up these really great plans, but the base of all of that is the care.
And what do you need to plan for?
Live at home, live in a community, you fall and break a hip, you get hospitalized, your kids don’t live near you. What’s the scenario?
And then you’re not, then you’re depleting resources in a way that probably could be a lot more conservative, but you’re reacting, and so you have got to spend all this money to kind of put out the fires, if you will, when it comes to care.
Eric Blake: Well, so I had started to ask you, how did that experience change and shape the way you do work today or the things you do today?
But I think you’ve kind of already addressed that.
So I want to move into something that I thought was a really interesting term, the way you phrased this.
You describe your firm as dedicated to acting as the air traffic control for families, helping to manage and coordinate the many moving parts of elder care.
Can you just explain, what does that mean? What does that mean to you?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: So as a professional aging life care manager, advanced professional, we have a holistic approach to how we look at care because everybody’s different.
You may have a diagnosis of dementia, but the trajectory of that disease, the acceleration of that disease, the home environment, the family dynamic, you may be an only child, you may be a blended family, you may have alpha brothers and sisters who fight at every little decision that needs to be made.
We look at family dynamics. We look at the client. We look at their diagnoses. We look at their benefits. We look at their legal plan. We look at who their professional village is and coordinate with their financial planner.
As you know, solo aging is becoming a very big and growing population, and there’s so much that goes into that.
But looking at their long-term care, do they have long-term care insurance?
Do they need to spend down for Medicaid so that they can be eligible to go into a nursing facility?
What if they fall and break a hip?
So we’re looking at all of these areas. There’s eight knowledge areas that we look at.
We assess those areas, then we put in our professional recommendations, and then the family says, “You know what? I want you to help me with whatever the tasks are.”
And then as care ebbs and flows, sometimes it’s really stable, and then they have the event.
But because we hold all of that information, we know exactly what to execute and how to execute and how to plan accordingly.
And if there’s an adult daughter, who is usually the caregiver, we’re also preserving her, or preserving the adult son.
Eric Blake: Hey everyone, it’s Eric. Hope you’re enjoying today’s episode.
I want to take just a quick moment to share a resource I think you’ll find valuable.
Have you ever found yourself asking, “How much can I put into an IRA this year?” Or, “How much can I earn before my Social Security gets reduced?”
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It’s a simple reference you can keep handy whenever questions come up.
Now, back to the episode.
Eric Blake: Right. Well, and I think that’s one of the things many women face at some point. And a lot of times it can be unexpected, or sometimes it can just be a slow progression, and it obviously can have a real impact on their retirement.
One of the things I really wanted to do with this podcast is go beyond just the Social Security and the tax conversation. That’s all stuff I enjoy talking about, but I know if we’re going to be working with women, we’ve got to go beyond that.
And part of that is just bringing resources to our listeners who may be in the middle of this right now.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes.
Eric Blake: So I would love to get your perspective on what are you seeing when it comes to women stepping into that caregiver role?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Well, it’s interesting. They don’t lead with that conversation.
I can be on a video call, which I am, with women presidents and CEOs, and they lead with what they do.
But then we start talking about caregiving, and all of these hands go up.
“I’m a caregiver. I’m a caregiver.”
So we’re not normalizing the conversation.
If amongst ourselves we’re not normalizing the conversation, how are professionals able to normalize the conversation?
I think we’re seeing a lot more. There’s a lot more press and a lot more, you know, AI technology is always like, “Oh, we can solve all these problems.”
But I do think that we need to normalize the conversation.
When I do hear that they are deep in caregiving, which most of my friends are, and they are calling me saying, “What do I do? I don’t know what to do,” because they haven’t planned, they just do.
But then what happens is Mom lives in Fresno, daughter lives in Austin, Mom has a fall, she has to drop everything she’s doing and travel, put her work on hold, and travel to Fresno, fix whatever’s going on, try to manage the job, and then come back, and then has to worry about Mom with her new husband.
Eric Blake: Right. Right.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: I see a lot of that.
And if you have to take off work, say you don’t own your own business, the chances of your career momentum are at stake because you have to take off, and then you have gaps in your work history.
So I see a lot of that.
Or they have to take FMLA because they have to take care of an elder parent or someone with special needs.
I see a lot of that. So we’re juggling a lot, but there’s not really a plan in place.
And so my perspective as a care strategist, and part of the association that I’m with, is there needs to be collaboration amongst the financial and legal professionals and bring in a care professional, a care strategist, so that we can collectively approach these from different angles, financial, legal, care, and know what is going on and anticipate what’s going to come and have safety measures in place.
But I see a lot of reactiveness.
Eric Blake: Right.
Well, and that’s definitely one of the questions I wanted to ask because when you think about the role you play and the role I play, at some point they’re going to cross.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes.
Eric Blake: And I guess that’s where I would be curious to see what challenges you’ve seen with those conversations of saying, “Well, I do my part, you do your part, they do their part,” when ultimately the best scenario is everybody trying to work together.
Are you still seeing struggles in that area of trying to bring the professionals on and get everybody on the same page?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: I see a lot more welcoming of the conversation.
I was welcomed by the Austin Financial Planning Association, 90 financial planners in there, and they were very engaged and got a lot of talking and saying, “I have a client, can you come to... Can you do a discovery call? Can we do one together?”
And so that has been really helpful in planning.
But it needs to be more normalized.
It should be part of the onboarding if you’re working with a financial professional.
You don’t have to take advantage of the care strategist, but it would be good to know what they do.
So in the event that you do need it, then you know that you’re not searching and going to ChatGPT and saying, “What do I need to do and find for blah, blah, blah?”
You know a certified professional that’s credentialed that can really identify what those long-term care needs are.
And it’s good for you to know because you’re doing their cost analysis, their spend down.
Preservation of their assets is so in line with care.
If you don’t have a plan, then you’re really spending maybe unnecessarily when it could have been more conservative.
Eric Blake: So just out of curiosity, when you’re having those discovery calls, who is initiating that?
Like in your situation, is it the daughter? Is it the parent?
Best case, I would assume everybody’s on the phone, on that call, but who’s typically on that call?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: So typically on the call, our callers are usually the adult daughters.
Eric Blake: Okay.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: That got a name from another adult daughter that got a name from another adult daughter.
It’s like, “Oh, it’s my turn now.”
And then we’ve had long-standing relationships with financial institutions. We’re vetted.
And again, solo aging is coming up more and more, and so the trust officers and the financial professionals are like, “Who’s going to help my client and manage and oversee, who is a professional, certified, insured, bonded?”
All of those things that you can trust and know that they are going to communicate with you as well.
Because it’s a two-way street.
It’s not just Lina and her company.
We have to keep Eric on the same page to let him know, “Hey, we have to do a house remodel. It’s going to cost this. How do we do this in the most conservative way?”
Or they need a new wheelchair, they need their car modified. What do we do with that spend and plan for?
Eric Blake: Yeah. Well, and I think that’s interesting that we always kind of talk about the financial planner being the middle of that financial wheel, where all the spokes come out from there.
When they need an estate plan, we can communicate with the attorney. Sometimes there’s a lot of translating legal into English.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes.
Eric Blake: But that’s one of the things that I’ve learned so much, just from following people like you and some of the other guests we’ve had on, is medical speak.
How do people understand what that doctor is actually telling me? Or what do I do now that I’ve gotten this diagnosis or health challenge?
How do I understand what my next steps are?
And I’d love for you to share that perspective as well on how you can actually help people move through those next steps.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes, and it essentially starts with a care plan.
Just looking at those eight knowledge areas that I was talking about, we look at clinical, medical, their medications, their history, the psychosocial, who surrounds them.
We look at all of their benefits. We want to make sure that we’re maximizing if they have VA benefits.
If we need to spend down. Medicare versus Medicare Advantage. That’s a whole other world.
Then you have SSDI, SSI, retirement, and how does that all play into that?
So when they come to us, we are actually assessing all of those areas and, again, doing a care plan and then executing on that care plan.
That deliverable also, if we have a collaborative approach with the financial planner and the estate planner, they’re getting that deliverable so they know what we’re doing.
And I really am wholeheartedly emphasizing that collaboration from the professional aspect really needs to happen.
Again, because we’re not talking about care, but we’re talking about the financial and legal plan, and that needs to be integrated even more now because we’ve got these solo agers.
The baby boomers are turning 80 this year.
Eric Blake: Right.
Well, and I always talk about money being just the tool to make things happen.
It’s so much more.
Money is almost the smaller aspect of all these things because if you don’t really have a plan, you don’t know what you’re going to do with the money, how to use it, it’s just not going to work.
I think that’s one of the things.
The other thing I wanted to ask you, I’m very focused in our practice about helping people understand the process, not just what the outcome is, especially when they’re trying to decide that they’re going to trust us to be that financial planner to walk alongside them along their retirement journey.
And one of the things, as I was preparing for our conversation, on your website you actually outline how you guys go about supporting families.
You already touched on this a little bit, but from that initial assessment to the ongoing coordination and advocacy, can you walk through, is there any more that you would want to add as far as exactly what that process looks like, especially in those early stages when a family’s just trying to decide if your services are in fact the right fit?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Right.
So we always do a discovery call where we try to understand what the issues are with clients.
Fifty percent of our calls are reactive. Somebody’s in a crisis.
And as much as we’re really good at crisis management because we’ve been doing it for 20 plus years and kind of know the drill.
You know, Mom fell in the hospital. I live in New York. I don’t know what to do.
Besides that, care ebbs and flows.
We can have a great couple of months and then we want to maintain the independence of the elder. We want to honor that.
But then they have a fall and they dig their heels in and say, “I’m not moving.”
Until the event happens, and then we’re doing crisis management because we’re transitioning from one environment to the other.
So we’re proactive, but we’re also reactive and jumping in when those crises happen.
A lot of times we’ll have a well spouse and one that has been diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, dementia, and then needs to move into assisted living.
So we have to preserve the caregiver as well.
We look at the extensions of the client, who is the center, but we have to look at the daughter, the son, the aging spouse, and make sure that they’re also taken care of because they may be living in two separate situations.
But it gives comfort to the adult daughters and sons who may live nearby or who may live at a distance to know that these things, this air traffic control, the moving pieces and parts, are being handled by somebody professionally and that can move care forward.
We know a lot about a lot.
We know the reputations. We know the good communities, the not so good communities, the ones that do things very well.
So that knowledge is also very helpful.
But we’re also a third party on the outside, so we can also be the heavy.
Eric Blake: Right.
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Sometimes you don’t have perfect families that don’t do nice things.
And we have a duty to report.
If we feel like there’s exploitation or things going on that are not really in line with the law, then we will report.
So we’re doing everything like a professional daughter, but we have the knowledge to do it.
Eric Blake: So Lina, what does it look like if somebody wants to engage in your services?
What are those options?
Is it a one-time fee? Is it an ongoing long-term relationship?
How does somebody actually engage with you if that’s something that they think would in fact be beneficial for their family?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Well, I would always say, whether you stay with us or not, start with the care plan.
Do the care plan.
Know what you’re going to be prepared for.
And whether or not you want to engage, at least now you have a roadmap.
At the very least, that’s the basic that I would recommend.
Again, we do the discovery call, and we identify some potential issues that could arise with their particular situation and how we can help.
We just do an agreement where it’s not a contract.
We don’t ask for a retainer.
If we’re driving care forward, that’s how we get compensated.
We are a private pay entity.
But yes, we start off with the care plan.
And then once they get this very thorough, very detailed care plan, I think most of the clients that call say, “Can you help us?”
Because this is a lot and there are a lot of things that they didn’t think about.
And so we help implement that.
But again, if we’re driving care forward, they’ve given us the go-ahead to implement the recommendations, we will do that.
And then if they don’t wish to engage, then we discharge them from service.
And then if they need us, they re-engage.
We’ve had that happen many, many times.
Because it’s all good when things are stable.
Eric Blake: Well, and do you mind if I do ask, do you charge a fee for the care plan or is that just an initial assessment?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: It’s by the hour.
Most practices charge that way or they’ll have a flat fee.
Eric Blake: And I think it’s just important to know.
One of the things that I’ve learned, again, as I’ve done this podcast talking to people like you, is that if you just look at the cost, you’re probably missing something.
I think we need to look at it from the standpoint of, okay, yes, it’s going to cost me something, but what might it save me by having the right plan in place?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Right.
I give an example.
Have you ever tried to call Social Security and navigate that?
That probably is worth a million dollars to a lot of people.
Or activate your long-term care insurance and manage that.
It’s a lot.
So if you don’t know how to navigate that, you have to define what your time is worth.
And so, yeah.
We charge $185 an hour by the 15-minute increment.
We document everything because I also, we testify in court sometimes under our guardianship program, so everything is documented and outlined.
And then I think one of the great things that we do too is everybody that is an interested party, including the professionals involved, they are getting an update when everybody else is updated.
And there’s reassurance there that we’re not running rogue.
We’re very intentional because we have that care plan and what we need to execute on.
Eric Blake: But again, there’s always the talk about the importance of planning and financial planning, but obviously care planning can be just as critical.
So I think it’s important to understand that it really all comes back to having a plan.
Now, I know you serve families primarily in specific areas across Texas.
Do you want to share the areas that you guys focus on geographically?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Sure.
We are in Austin. We are in Houston. We are in Bryan-College Station. We are in South Texas to the Rio Grande Valley.
We do virtual consults for anyone around the country, and we are looking to expand outside of Texas, but it’s Texas for now.
We have a bilingual staff.
We work with special needs for a guardianship program.
And then we also just rolled out a solo aging program for those that don’t have anyone to help navigate their care and their financial affairs.
Eric Blake: And I know that’s excellent.
I know right before we got started, we talked about a very important role that you’ve taken on, so I think connecting that to people that may be listening and may not be in the locations that you currently serve.
How can they find out about the services or similar services or providers that might be able to help in their situation or area?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: Yes.
I am the incoming president for an organization called the Aging Life Care Association.
It’s a national, 42-year-old association, and we have 2,000 colleagues that do what I do across the country.
I wanted to make the distinction between Aging Life Care, which is regulated, has standards of practice, and an ethical code that we follow.
We are all insured and bonded, and we mitigate risk for the professionals that we work with.
There’s a vertical liability when you start referring, and if you don’t have confidence with your professional village, we alleviate those concerns.
Because there’s a dilution now with people hanging their shingle and saying, “I’m a care manager.”
And a care manager can mean millions of things.
A care manager can mean somebody that’s getting paid by a facility for placement, and we don’t do that.
It’s against our standards of practice.
So to find other colleagues in the area, on the website there’s an orange button that says, “Find an Aging Life Care professional in your area.”
You put in the zip code and the distance from that zip code, and it will give all of the professionals in that area.
On that website as well, if you’re saying, “I don’t know what I’m looking for,” there are resources that explain what questions you should ask when engaging and trying to find a fit.
Eric Blake: No, that’s perfect.
And then what is the best way for listeners to connect with you and learn more about your work?
Lina Supnet-Zapata: You can call 512-615-6116.
There’s also accessibility through our website, mircareconsultants.com, and there’s a query form in there that you can fill out and send, and we will get it.
And if you wish to have a brief conversation, we will call you back within that same day or the next day.
Eric Blake: That is perfect, and we’ll be sure to include all of those in today’s show notes, your website, your contact information, and all the additional resources that you shared as well.
I think that’s going to be extremely valuable for people.
Lina, thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story and sharing the work that you’re doing.
This has been such a valuable conversation.
That is it for today’s episode.
For all the links and resources, again, don’t forget to visit simplyretirementpodcast.com.
Until next time, please remember, retirement is not the end of the road, it’s the start of a new journey.
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