TRANSCRIPT
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#59 - Navigating Retirement with Confidence and Clarity with Kathleen Burns Kingsbury
Eric Blake: Have you ever felt like talking about money, especially in retirement, was off limits or even taboo? What if breaking that silence could be the first step toward a more confident and fulfilling retirement?
Eric Blake: Welcome to another episode of the Simply Retirement Podcast, where we want to empower and educate women to live your retirement on your terms.
Today's topic is one, I'm incredibly excited about the emotional and behavioral side of money and how your ability to talk about money directly impacts the quality of your retirement. Far too often I work with women who have been left out of the financial conversations, whether that be during a marriage, maybe after a divorce, falling the loss of a spouse.
And unfortunately, even with their financial advisors, many women still felt that, find themselves talked over, maybe ignored, left out of the conversation altogether. And even now as they take charge of their finances, there's still hesitation around asking questions or expressing uncertainty. And that hesitation often comes from silence from years of being told that talking about money.
Is rude or even maybe even shameful. My guest today is Kathleen Burns Kingsbury, and she is on a mission to change that. She's an advisor, coach, a speaker, and the author of Breaking Money, silence, how to Shatter Money Taboos, talk more openly about Finances and Live a Richer Life. And she just released an updated addition of this book earlier this year.
For all the links and resources shared in the episode, please visit www.thesimplyretirementpodcast.com. With that, Kathleen Kingsbury, welcome to the Simply Retirement Podcast.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Thank you, Eric. It's exciting to be here and break money silence with you.
Eric Blake: Absolutely. I'm so excited. I, so I've read the book. I'm so excited about having this conversation and we were trying to get this done a couple of weeks ago.
It didn't work out, but I am, I'm so excited to have you on here and just have you. Share your insights and make the, make a huge impact on our audience.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Excellent. Let's get started then.
Eric Blake: Absolutely. Let's do it. So let's start with just with your story. What led your focus to your career on the intersection of psychology, wealth, money, conversations, and ultimately what led you to write the book?
Breaking Money. Silence.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: I. Sure. I'll give you the short version. In terms of my career in ending up in financial psychology, it isn't something that I could have predicted earlier on, but a series of events led me to discover this field of money psychology. So my background is in banking and finance. I actually started as an FDIC bank examiner, believe it or not, and during that time discovered my love of psychology and I really wanted to coach the bankers to be able to do a better job as opposed to just rate them on their safety and soundness.
But that wasn't in the job description. So ultimately I got a master's in counseling psychology and went the completely opposite direction. Worked with primarily women around women's empowerment, helping them feel better about their bodies, depression, anxiety, things like that. And ultimately, I came to this crossroad, and the crossroad was.
I was burning out of healthcare and I had a strong business side. I also had a personal experience where I'm incredibly financially literate, but still managed to get ripped off by a crooked contractor. And I realized, wait a second. You can be smart about money, but it can still kind of mess with your head.
And so that was the impetus of starting KBK Wealth Connection, my coaching, consulting and training company. Also the start of me really blending those two things together. And so over the course of my career, the business has been open almost 20 years, believe it or not, over the course of my career, I've always talked about the intersection between psychology.
I. And business or finance, and so it's just where I live. It just makes sense to me, and I'm really happy that there's a lot of folks coming up behind me that wouldn't probably have had on your podcast that are continuing the work. I can take a breath or I can tell you a little bit more about the book and why I wrote it.
You tell me.
Eric Blake: No, that, that was awesome. I really enjoyed hearing your background. We've have gotten the chance to know each other just a little bit here and there through groups like purse strings and some other things we're connected together with. But yeah. Talk about the book. What led you to write a book?
I'm always fascinated by those stories about what led you to what? To take the time to pa have the passion to do that.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Insanity is what led me to write books because I've written five. I've signed up several times, but this, the first time, just very briefly, it was like a personal thing. I just felt moved to write a book and I co-wrote a book, which was a huge accomplishment and there's never anything like your first book.
So I encourage people to do that if they have that yearning in terms of my latest. Book, which is Breaking Money Silence. It was originally published in 2017, and at that point in time I had worked a lot with financial planners, advisors, private bankers around communicating about money, helping individuals, couples, and.
Families talk about money and also had worked with a fair amount of clients around that issue as well. And what I noticed was there was a big disconnect. Advisors wanted to talk about finances and the human side of finance with their clients and clients. Wanted to talk about it, but didn't think financial advisors did that.
And so breaking money, silence is really that bridge between those two worlds because I thought, why is this The case? Advisors, even though they're very good at talking about your money, aren't necessarily talking good at talking about their own money or talking about kind of the more sensitive topics, retirement and end of life certainly being two of those topics.
And so really breaking money, silence is a roadmap on. Talks a little bit about why it's a problem, but more importantly, how do you go about changing that in your life, whether you are an advisory client or whether you're an advisor, trying to incorporate that more into your business.
Eric Blake: So when you talk about money, one of the things that I really enjoyed that you talked about and I think was so impactful for me in reading the book was the money mindset.
And where that comes from. That was, I was really fascinated by that. I would love you to talk more in detail about that. What you guys all the way down from your childhood even, and there's so many things that lead to what your money mindset is. Can you talk a little bit more about that piece?
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Sure. So a money mindset is a set of thoughts and beliefs and attitudes we have about money and wealth and the purpose of it in our lives.
And what is fascinating to me, and probably to you and the audience once they hear it, is that these thoughts and beliefs. Often reside in your unconscious thoughts and mind. And unless you take time to explore them and uncover them, they're influencing your saving, spending, gifting, and investing without you even knowing it.
And so when you start to do a deep dive on money mindsets, what you find is that it usually starts forming. When we're about five years old and we become aware of this thing called money and our foundational beliefs around saving, spending, gifting, and investing, and like how we're supposed to do that and how we're supposed to feel about it, usually the foundation is set by our teen years, so without us even knowing it, we have this whole story in our head about money, and that becomes our reality.
It isn't necessarily reality. And so when we get into adulthood, some of that money mindset might really serve us and help us. Like for instance, I have a money mindset that it's good to save, it's bad to spend. Now we can argue that's pretty black and white and not necessarily always a good idea.
But the savings part really helped me save, and I always have an emergency fund. The spending part got in the way because I was. In my twenties really cheap. And so I didn't take the risks I needed to take. I didn't enjoy life as much as I think I should have, and so my money mindset was part of the problem and also part of what was great.
So with a money mindset, I. Just to finish that piece, it's really about helping people uncover those thoughts and beliefs so then they can make more informed decisions. Like I no longer think spending is bad. I think that's way too concrete. I think that's too black and white. I think there's certain types of spending that is healthy and really a good idea, and then other types of spending, impulse spending or spending, 'cause I'm not feeling good as opposed to dealing with those feelings.
I figure out other ways to do that. So that's the type of work that I do often with advisory clients.
Eric Blake: And I'm curious, this is just a question that popped into my head about the idea that, your money mindset comes from your background starting even as again, your younger years. But how often do you see it where maybe it's a particular event, whether it's conscious or subconscious?
And just an example, if I ran into clients, for example, that might have started investing right before the financial crisis or right before some. Significant decline in the market and that sets their mindset for that point forward and their fear about doing certain things or fear of making certain decisions.
I'm just curious, how often do you see that variance versus developing that mindset from a young age versus something some immediate kind of cat, we'll call it a catastrophic type event?
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: I see that a fair amount. And what is interesting is it's part of the overall mindset. So if we think about it, and this isn't to blame parents, it's just parents are around you.
Managing money. So they happen to be showing you overtly or covertly how to do this thing called money. So it's your family is sending you messages, society is sending you messages. Certainly if you are a certain gender, a certain race, there's messages. But when you talk about these traumatic events, often when I'm doing work with people, whether it's advisors or with the end client, what I find is that.
Sometimes they don't even remember them. Like I had one woman I worked with who was an advisor and she had a lot of trouble keeping cash in her business, and I'm talking like enough to be viable. And so when we really dug into her money mindset, we discovered this. Traumatic event in her life where she just felt like she had to get rid of the money, like she couldn't keep the money.
And yes, that's a long-winded yes. But yes, I see that often. But it's not always traumatic events. Sometimes it's all this little stuff that adds up to not being exactly where you wanna be around money. And to be truthful, Eric, and I'm sure you see this, none of us are perfect around money. So the goal isn't to be perfect, it's to be insightful and do the best you can and to learn from your mistakes.
Eric Blake: And I think that's one of the things that, you know, that I, all advisors struggled to some extent. I know I, that's one of the areas where I felt like, hey, I really wanna focus on this, especially is our primary audience is women. Whether the podcast or even our practice is getting better at asking the right questions to dig into that.
So are there any particular questions you say, here's two or three questions that every advisor. Probably should be asking their clients or maybe even just the individual asking themselves to figure out what their money mindset really is, because that's the hard part. That's the first hurdle is just figuring out what that money mindset is.
What do I think about money?
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yes, exactly. Exactly. In the book, there is a money mindset assessment. There's also a money talk. Mindset assessment. So those are the automatic thoughts and beliefs we have about engaging in conversations. I'll share a few of you those with you, but certainly people can look and see a laundry list of topics and questions that they can ask.
And I do think that the advisor should ask him or herself those questions first. And then, because I think that insight is really useful. They get an experience of what it's like to be a client being asked those questions. If I was an advisor and I know advisors, you have very little time, right? You have a lot to do in a short period of time.
I would ask some basic questions. Number one, do you know what a money mindset is? And then share with it what it is next. What did you learn growing up about money and how do you think it impacts you today and how you make financial decisions? And then getting curious about whatever their response is.
If there was one thing that you would like to do differently around money that has to do with your attitude or belief around money, what would it be and why? Those are the kind of just basic questions that I would ask and build into a discovery or even into an annual meeting if you've been working with someone for a long time.
Eric Blake: And what about the other direction? So thinking about you are the client and you had a financial advisor who you felt like you wanted to have these conversations with, but they haven't really come up. How would you as the client I. Approach that conversation or initiate those conversations to say, Hey, I wanna have a deeper understanding of what my thinking about money, but how is the advisor, can you help me with that in making better decisions or ma understanding my decisions?
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: I love that question. I've been interviewed about this book since 2017 and I've never been asked that question, so kudos. It reminds me of the guy on hot Wings, like he asked a really great question. Thank you. Yeah. I think for clients, one of the things you can do, and I always encourage people to blame the podcast or blame the author, say that you listened to Eric's podcast, they were talking about money mindsets, and you were curious, is that something we can build into our.
Conversations. You can share the Breaking Money Silence book with your advisor. Or you could simply say, one of the things that I know is important and either causes me stress or causes me angst or I worry about it, are the thoughts and feelings I have about money. I just recently learned that my history around money is important is that's something you do.
And if they do great, if they're willing to go there, some advisors are like you. Others are not equipped to do that. They haven't had the training, they may not have the interest, and so then it's reaching out to someone like myself or the other coaches that are out there and do that work as an adjunct to the work that you're doing with the advisor.
Eric Blake: I. Would you go to the extent of saying, Hey, maybe I need to look for another advisor that's more open to that conversation, or what are your thoughts about that? I hate to throw advisors under the bus, although I do it from time to time. That's okay. Try not to, but
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: that's okay. I'm a big believer that if it is important to you as a client and your gut says you're not getting what you need fully in that advisory relationship, that it's time to explore other options.
I've done it in my own life. I will continue to do that and I certainly coach other women and other people to do that as well. And sometimes you outgrow an advisor, so it may be that this person has been really great and then you decide, no, I wanna talk more about these life issues. I wanna talk more about, I.
And get guidance around how do I have conversations with my kids or with my adult parents about retirement or about this next phase of life. And if you feel like you're not getting what you need, it's absolutely okay to break up with your advisor. I encourage people to take some time to think about what they're looking for in advisor and take some time to interview a couple of different advisors, but they're out there.
And so yeah, sometimes you have to let somebody go, not 'cause they're a bad person, just because they don't fit your needs anymore.
Eric Blake: I always use the example with financial advisors. I think it is so hard for a single financial advisor to be an expert in everything. When we talk about our primary client being very near or in retirement, and the decisions you have to make when you're 65, I.
Being completely different than the decisions you have to make when you're 45, if you're saving for education versus you're trying to figure out how do I start drawing money from my retirement accounts? Which accounts should I be drawing from first? What do I do about social security? Those are all completely different questions that you're trying to answer now versus I.
20, 25, 30 years ago. But this seems like it's somewhere along those same lines of, Hey, if I am not getting the services or not getting the value that I feel like I want from this advisor, maybe that's another consideration to say, Hey, I, maybe it is time. Like you said, maybe I've outgrown this particular advisor.
I.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I don't know what you think Eric, and feel free to chime in 'cause it is your podcast. But I do think all advisors can't be all things to all people, and that's where sometimes a client might set up what I call a financial dream team with the advisors, a really important piece of that dream team.
Is there another consultant, or whether it's a psychology coach like myself, or whether it's somebody who specializes in social security or whether that's someone who's going to. Coach you beyond maybe the coaching an advisor does around retirement to really think about that team approach.
And I don't know if that's something that you believe in or you feel like it's better and it's okay if it's different, feel like it's better to have that, that one-stop shopping just with the advisor. I.
Eric Blake: I think it, it definitely depends on the advisor themselves and what you feel like their expertise are, what they feel like their expertise is, and whether the additional coaching aspect can come into play.
Sometimes if it's a debt management solution, maybe the advisor focuses on the investment assets to help that client, but then they need somebody else that maybe has more expertise and I'm more than comfortable saying, Hey, that's just not my area of expertise. I feel like I need to connect you. To somebody who can help you Better than that.
Again, it's I, you had to use the example of five 20 nines. I know what a 5 29 is. My kids had five 20 nines. I just don't do it a whole lot. So if you're looking for the best advisor to help you plan for college, it's probably not me. Yeah. You gotta take that same mindset with some of these other concepts as well, that it really comes down to what is best for that particular client.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yes. And what is interesting about what you just said is that would be a great screening question for interviewing an advisor. When you hit upon something that's outside your expertise, how do you handle it? Be a very interesting question to ask a future advisor, and in fact, I'm gonna build that into my repertoire.
Eric Blake: I think, and that would be the helping, at what question would I ask to peel that out of them. And I think that would be the hard part if I can, depending on your experience in working with financial advisors, do you have enough knowledge or awareness of, okay, is this advisor gimme a line of BS that based on their response that they gave me, can I do, I feel like they answered it in a truthful way.
And I, not to say that advisors are not good at saying, I don't know. I guess that would be one of my.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: But you as an advisor just said, I'm quick to say where it, what I'm not good at. And so it's a personal preference, obviously for me, and I would say, and don't represent all women, but for a lot of women, I think being able to acknowledge what you're good at and what you're not good at.
So maybe the question is just something like, what do you think you're really good at as an advisor you really excel in helping clients at, and are there any areas where you feel like maybe you'd refer that out and. I think hopefully, whatever the answer is, you'd get a sense of are you comfortable with that answer and is that gonna serve you
Eric Blake: well?
That's one of the things I talk about a lot is people being a male that focuses on women as their primary client base. I, that's a very frequent question I get is why would you choose to do that? And so for me, it's always a great opportunity to share my story about you being raised by a single mother and being, seeing my grandmother being widowed at 62 from my grandfather, who was my father figure.
So I'd love to get a chance to just share my story, but that's one of the things I always say is if you don't have a story behind why you're doing something, especially when it comes to working with women. Pretty quickly, they're gonna see right through you and they're gonna know that you're full of it and you're, they're probably going to be finding another advisor anyway.
But I, but
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: actually, I actually think we need more male advisors who do specialize in working with women. Not to say that women aren't great at it, but different dynamics work for different people. And I know I grew up and learned a lot from my father, primarily talked to my father about money. And so historically most people wouldn't think this, given what I do for a living.
But historically, most of my advisors have been male. I. Not that I've searched out men advisors, but it's just been the people that I've clicked with. So really I think there's real use in everybody being involved in helping better serve. 51% of the population.
Eric Blake: And that's what I think is interesting. I'd love to get your thoughts on this too.
So there's, I talked about this in episode 50. There's this big, this great wealth transfer that, that our industry, the financial services industry is talking about constantly and every event, every whatever it might be, it's talking about this great wealth transfer and more specifically, how much of that wealth is going to be going to women over the next, it's already started, but over the next few years.
A significant amount of this wealth is going to women and our industry is talking about how do you prepare for that? How do you gotta have the right systems? And I'm like, how? Why are you just now, why is this now the trigger for you to start doing things that you should have been doing 50 years ago, a hundred years ago?
What are your, I would love to get your, just your thoughts about all that's going on. 'cause I, you, I'm sure you see it, that this big wealth transfer issue and be prepared. 'cause women are gonna be taking over and you gotta be ready, you gotta do things differently. I'm like,
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: why are you now, well in 2008.
I was standing on stage telling people that there was this big great wealth transfer and 70% of it was gonna go to women. And you flash forward, do the number of year count. Since then, I've published a book, how to Give Financial Advice to Women, which is still in print. Probably needs to be updated, but you can still get it.
And it talks about that. I just wrote a piece this morning that's gonna go on my website about the great wealth transfer and the opportunity with women, so I completely hear you, Eric. I think that some advisors like yourself have gotten the message early, and I've also learned that often a lot of the skills involved in working with female clients.
They're not all the same, just like male clients aren't all the same, is really meeting the individual where they're at. Gender is part of it, but it's really just customizing that and being able to talk about not just the technical aspects, but also the aspects around, in your case, retirement that have to do with.
Feelings and uncertainty and what's it like to spend down when you're used to saving. So I do feel like some advisors have gotten it. I do also feel like it's a broken record, and I was like, wow, we've been talking about this for almost 20 years, and I know I'm not the only one who's been talking about it for 20 years.
So yes, there's a great wealth transfer, there's a huge opportunity for advisors. You are ahead of the game because. Of the work that you've already done, and I think female clients and their partners need to know that puts them in a position of power, and that means that you can be very selective with who you wanna work with as an advisor.
I know it's hard to break up with an advisor. I know it's also hard to find an advisor. It's dating, but without all the fun. And so I just. Really encourage anyone who's listening in to really just do an assessment and see, is this the right person for now? And if not, take the risk and make a commitment to your financial life.
It's really important.
Eric Blake: Along those lines, a lot of our, a lot of our clients in our audience, the people we speak to, have gone through some life transition. In many cases, they've been widowed or they've gone through a divorce. They may be. Now, those you talked, we talked about when you're young and what conversations you've had with your parents and how you learned what your money mindset, where it comes from.
But in front of a lot of audience who may be in their later fifties, early sixties, even their seventies, where maybe even in their relationships, their marriages, there wasn't a lot of conversation about money like either because the husband just wanted to control that aspect of their lives, whatever the reason might be.
But now they're in a position where they need to. Speak up more. Are there certain things, strategies, ideas, that you think would help in the getting those conversations started or getting, trying to figure out, where do I go from here? How do I get those money conversations started?
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yes. Yeah, absolutely, and I see it a lot from the lens of the adult child who reaches out to me to do some coaching around breaking money, silence, because they're worried about their parents not talking about retirement or not talking about this next phase of life.
I think if you're listening in, it's very similar. It's a mindset, it's part of your money mindset is what are the automatic thoughts and beliefs you have about retirement. And it could be as simple as having a conversation and maybe if it's too scary to have with your partner right away, maybe you have it with a close friend or a trusted advisor.
What does retirement mean to you? Looking back at your family history, how did your parents enter retirement? Did they retire? What did they do in retirement? And how do you think that would be similar or different? And then what's your biggest fear when you think of retirement and what's your biggest joy?
And I know getting closer and closer to retirement myself, I know that these conversations are really important. And that might be also something you talk to your advisor about as we approach to re retirement. What are the conversations that you're going to help facilitate around this next phase of our life beyond just the investments?
Because as it's pretty emotional and I think most of us. Think about retirement so differently than our parents did. We're not sitting on the front porch in a rocker waiting for our days to pass. We're on mountain bikes, we're in kayaking, we're skiing, we're traveling, visiting grandkids. There's a lot of joy that can come from this type of money conversation.
And yeah, I encourage people to really break through that silence.
Eric Blake: So before we started, I told you there was a story I might try to work in if it made sense, and I think it, maybe it does. And part of this is because of that exact reason. So if you're the wife or either, either partner, but you don't feel like you had a voice in the related, in the money conversations.
One of the things is this is a LinkedIn post and I won't share who, who made the post, but it was a pretty well known person in the leadership space. He actually put on LinkedIn, Hey, I am, I'm 63. I'm thinking about when I should be starting Social Security. It's not, we don't really need the money. I could start now and all these different things.
Or I could wait till I'm 67, I could wait till I'm 70. My wife has it worked. So her benefit's gonna be the spousal benefit, half of his, whatever, whenever he does start. And his question, of course was, and this is out there to everyone. Wendy, what are your thoughts about when I should start? And again, maybe it's because I'm hypersensitive to these things.
My response was, have you asked your wife? She thinks.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yep.
Eric Blake: Because the issue is, and I've talked about this on a number of episodes, she's going to outlive you more than likely, whatever you decide on your social security benefit is gonna drastically impact her, because that is going to be her survivor benefit as well.
So I, and I put it, I didn't put it quite as forthright. Yeah. I said it and hopefully as a nice way I could, as I could, but have you talk to your wife, because this is what typically happens. She's gonna outlive you. That's gonna be her survivor benefit. If you don't need the money, that might not be, that might not be that important to her.
She might think, Hey, if the more so guaranteed lifetime income I have, the better off, the more comfortable I'm going to be. It was just interesting that conversation. The question was posted on LinkedIn and maybe, again, maybe hypersensitive. Did he ever, maybe he did. Did he respond? No, he just liked my comment oh,
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: okay.
But I, it was
Eric Blake: also one of the few, and I think there's maybe only one other that brought up the spouse, all the others, you start doing it now, you're working, you're gonna get it reduced. And all these other nons spousal related responses. There was like two, two responses including mine, that were related to what does she think, how, what would, how does the wife.
Think you ought to handle this. And I'm just curious of where those conversations being had did. Has he asked his wife? I don't know if he has or hasn't, but it just, the way the question was phrased made me feel like that he probably hadn't.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yeah, I think there's that bias and sometimes, depending on the person, it's, they think they're protecting their wife and sometimes they like to have control over the decisions of finance it, and sometimes they just neglected to think, oh, I should ask my wife.
But I think that one of the things that I'm hoping Breaking Money, silence does, and this whole movement that I started. Is to help couples know these are conversations you need to have early and often. And actually in the book, I'm just remembering something, there's a funny story about, they're actually friends of mine where they sat down with an advisor and the advisor said, what's your image for retirement?
And the wife said, I'm gonna get a camper van and travel around the country to all the national parks. And he looked at her and he is what? Like he had no interest in doing that whatsoever. I
Eric Blake: remember that. Yeah. That's
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: better to uncover in your fifties than when you're sitting there, you've already retired and you're like, whoa, we have two very different.
Things that isn't a bad thing, that you had two different things, but it's figuring out where do we meet in the middle and what are some of the individual things that we do. And what I love is advisors can work you walk you through all the financial pieces to what these different dreams or what these different goals look like in retirement.
And once you get involved in that process, 'cause my husband and I recently have started this. It can be quite fun because you don't have to commit to anything to start talking about it. You can just explore and explore the financial ramifications, and I grew up with a dad who was in the military and retired and then got a whole nother job.
My husband's mom, he was raised by a single mom, never retired. So we have two very different views of retirement, but we have a couple years to figure it out. There you go.
Eric Blake: Excellent. I wanna make sure that our audience has, knows how to get in touch with you or connect with you where they can find the book, all those good things.
I wanna make sure that they definitely can find the resource and you actually said, indicated you had that maybe something, a free resource that might be able to access as well.
Kathleen Burns Kingsbury: Yeah, so two things. One is the easiest place to find me is on my website. It's KBK wealth connection.com. If you are a professional and you're interested in contacting me on LinkedIn, it's under Kathleen Burns Kingsbury.
I know that's a lot. I. On LinkedIn and the free resource that I'd like to share with your audience and all your listeners is I have a guide on preparing for a money conversation. It walks you through the steps you need to take to prepare, so it's before you reach out to the other person and you can tailor it to the retirement conversation or any type of money conversation that you've been looking to have.
So I'll make that available to all of you.
Eric Blake: Excellent. Excellent. I appreciate that. Kathleen, thank you so much for joining us today, for sharing your insight, your experience, your encouragement. For those listening, I definitely recommend checking out Kathleen's book, breaking Money, silence, and exploring some of these other tools and resources on our website.
We'll definitely share those in the show's summary. Whether you're preparing for retirement, you're already in it, so you're supporting a loved one through the process, and just the first step being breaking that money, silence in your own world, helping make sure that you have a confident and empowered financial life.
That is it for today's episode. I. As a reminder for, again, all, for all the links and resources mentioned today, you can visit www.thesimplyretirementpodcast.com. Please don't forget to follow and share the show.
Until next time, please remember, retirement is not the end of the road. It's the start of a new journey.
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