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#62 - Gray Divorce and Retirement: How Collaborative Divorce May Protect Your Financial Future with Jill Lowe

Eric Blake: Divorce after age 55, often referred to as gray divorce has become more common than ever. According to an article by Purdue University in just March of this year, over 60% of gray divorces are initiated by women. If divorce has been or could be a part of your retirement journey, the financial impact can be life changing.

Eric Blake: Welcome to another episode of the Simply Retirement Podcast, where we want to empower and educate women to live your retirement. On your terms. I'm your host Eric Blake, practicing retirement planner with over 25 years of experience, founder of Blake Wealth Management, and I would not be the man I am today without the women in my life.

Today's topic is one that is becoming more and more relevant, and that again is gray divorce. That is divorced after age 55, and it's a growing trend that brings unique, emotional and financial challenges, especially for women who are either nearing or maybe already in retirement.

But none of the retirement assets. And on paper of course, it looked like a fair split, but now she's really worried about her day-to-day expenses. She's unsure of whether she'll actually be able to retire at all. This is more common than many people realize, and it's why I wanted to bring today's guest on this show.

Joining me today is Jill Lowe, a respective family law attorney who specializes in collaborative divorce. She works with women going through major life changes, helping them avoid the common pitfalls of divorce. Come out stronger financially and emotionally. For all the links and resources shared in this episode, you can visit the Simply Retirement podcast.com.

Also, don't forget if you have a question, a topic idea, or a specific retirement challenge you'd like to hear covered on an upcoming episode, you can visit the Simply Retirement podcast.com/ask Eric. And with that, Jill Lowe, welcome to the Simply Retirement Podcast.

Jill Lowe: Thank you for having me, Eric.

Eric Blake: Absolutely

Jill Lowe: To give an introduction about myself I have been practicing law for over 20 years. I'm licensed in Florida and in Texas. I have been exclusively working in family law cases for about 18 years, and the reason I got into family law and specifically collaborative divorces is based on my own family history.

Child of divorced parents. My parents divorced when I was in college, so this was a gray divorce. my mother, had encountered very similar, issues going through a divorce at a later age, as I see in many of my female clients and some of our male clients as well. they were in the litigation process and it took many years, cost a lot of money.

It did not provide. What the collaborative process provides in looking at the family unit after the divorce. So it just really impacted our family years later and still today. one that focuses on families, their goals, their interests, and to avoid what my family had gone through.

And so I really use this as my mission to really help other couples, women going through this same process. And so I think it might be helpful to start off by breaking down what. Are different types of divorces, right? Because absolutely you're hearing collaborative and it's okay, some people never heard this word before.

And so everyone knows what the traditional litigation divorce is. It's what in the movies. It's what most people talk about where, you're in a courtroom, it's more formalized. You have attorneys that are, adversaries. You are focused on positions of, Hey, I want this home, or I want this car, or even I want this amount of money for my spouse to pay me in maintenance or alimony.

So it's a very more structured, formalized process that really tries to remove all emotions from it. And if the. Clients can't agree. Parties can't agree. Judges make the decisions or sometimes a jury. So that's the litigation process. Collaborative is quite different. It is out of court, it is confidential, and the attorneys work as a team.

So instead of fighting against each other, we're really working as a team. To create a settlement, to create a resolution that benefits all the parties involved. And we focus on goals and interests. And we really try to get down to the why why something is important to one of the clients because then it can help us become much more creative in structuring the end result.

And we do bring in neutral professionals to really help the clients, a neutral financial professional, a neutral mental health professional.

We focus on the families. It's not for everybody, but there are many clients that I have seen benefit from this process. And then you have mediation,

Eric Blake: If you would. 'cause I think that's one that, that's popped up. You and I actually had a brief conversation about a friend of ours who doesn't quite fall in the great divorce category, which we'll talk about in a little bit as well.

But yeah, if you could talk about mediation and where that fits in this whole process as well.

Jill Lowe: Sure. So mediation mostly occurs in a litigation case.

It is really it's a formal. Meeting where you have a mediator, which is a neutral third person, and they really just take back and forth settlement options. The decision lies with the clients. But the mediator is a facilitator trying to get them to a resolution. It usually lasts just one day.

You're in separate rooms and it's really, there's a lot of just back and forth. I want this this is my response to that. It's counter offer, offer. I. Analogize it to my clients as you have a tennis ball and the ball's just going back and forth and back and forth. So that's really what mediation is and it's really, it's a final kind of, let's try and get this settled before we take it to a judge.

Eric Blake: So one of the things that kinda stepping back out and that's a great explanation. I love the tennis ball or the tennis game comparison. But if we can't step back just a little bit in terms of thinking great divorce because actually that's part of

your story. But can you talk a little about what your thoughts are about Great Divorce today, and maybe more importantly, why are we seeing this become so much more common?

Jill Lowe: Yeah, that's a great question. And recently I've had many more great divorces than I have seen in the last several years. What I'm noticing of the why people are coming to meet with me and the marriages are ending and I'm seeing it's happening a lot when the couples start to become empty nesters the children leaving the home.

And a lot of times it's having a difference in goals or perspectives about what their future might look like as a couple. Or there might be some lingering. Breakdown in communication that has just built over time and over time, and it's to a point where someone's I just, I can't do it anymore.

So those are really what I'm starting to see. Everyone has their own reasons and it might not fall within one of those, but that's just what I'm seeing.

Eric Blake: One of the things I would love you to get your feedback on this. as I was doing research for our conversation today, I found that article through Purdue University, about how many women are responsible for filing for the divorce.

One of the things that talked about it may have been a different article, but it was referencing, that women becoming more part of that financial conversation and feeling a little more confident in their financial situation and that leading to some of these decisions as well. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Jill Lowe: Yeah, so I have met with potential new clients in the past where they were afraid of their future financially, and so some of them have made the decision to stay in the marriage for those reasons. And I think women who are in a later in life. There is probably a more accumulation of assets in the estate.

They might be feeling more confident in terms of what their future could look like especially when they don't have minor children at home. So it's maybe starting a new career or changing career paths. So there is a building of confidence seeing that, with the estate that they do have that.

They will be okay. They will be able to manage on their own.

Eric Blake: And so looking then at what the general audience looks at, what do you see as maybe some of the bigger mistakes? Or maybe is there a single mistake that you see on a pretty frequent basis that maybe women might be making financially as they're going through a divorce?

Jill Lowe: Absolutely, and I saw it in my own family as well. It's making the emotional decision instead of a logical decision when it comes time to looking at the division of their estate. The home that typically there's a lot of emotion that is around it. It might be a home that they have raised their children in.

They have this idea of it's this nice, really nice big home, but with that comes maintenance and upkeep in some of these instances, they might not have a mortgage. But just the maintenance and upkeep of a larger home can sometimes, override their budget and dip into their savings that they do have, where they could be using it in other ways.

So I really try to help my clients in seeing the big picture of what their future might look like and to try and cut those emotional kind of ties that might be holding them down. So that they can make an informed, educated, logical decision about dividing assets so that they can plan for their future.

So in that example, it might be better for someone to sell the home, get the cash, but also get retirement too, especially if they haven't been paying into social security Depositing into an IRA or a 401k on their own and to have to rely on their spouses really getting some retirement to them so that they can manage that and grow that and have that for their future, I feel is more important than sometimes the home that we just wanna keep because we just, we love it and we've just had it for years.

Eric Blake: Is that something that you see, that, you hate to stereotype, men and women, it does seem to be that's a more frequent occurrence where the woman does feel more tied to the house. Maybe that is where their children were raised or grandchildren have spent time there, whereas the man might be a little bit more connected to the retirement assets, the investment assets.

Have you experienced that or is that more just a misperception?

Jill Lowe: I think it just depends upon the individual, some people have moved around a lot so they don't have this home that they've had for, 20 plus years. So I think it just really depends upon their kind of makeup of their family.

But looking back in recent cases, I think, and some of those there, the females may have had a little bit more emotional attachment to some of the property instead of some of the retirement. I think if you have a situation where one of the spouses, and it could just be a female, it could be a male as well, is.

Parent hasn't really been working as much, and then you have another, the other spouse that has been working and might have more years of work ahead of them. In those situations, the working spouse. Tends to be more concentrating on their financial investments and financial investing accounts instead of real estate and other things.

Eric Blake: as an attorney who's in this world do you see that as part of your role to help create a wider view or to be a little bit more open-minded around how the assets are going to be split, about being open to saying, Hey, financially you might just not be feasible to stay in the house under the circumstances.

Or, Hey, let's think about what your financial situation's gonna look like if you go this way versus going that way. So what role do you feel like you could play in those scenarios?

Jill Lowe: I feel like it's very important to have the conversations with clients about so that they are making informed and edu educated decisions of financially.

What I can't give financial advice, but I can give advice where I say, okay, looking at the estate, what is best to meet your goals and in the collaborative process. What's really great about that is we have a neutral financial professional who gathers financial documents part of the settlement team.

They are facilitating. Developing options for settlement. And in some instances I have referred my clients to financial planners to run projections, to look at their budgets to see if a settlement option works best for them and meeting their goals and term before we say yes, and before we sign an agreement.

Dividing the estate in that way.

Eric Blake: That's the next thing I wanted to go to is just your thoughts, 'cause we've had that conversation around how does a financial planner fit into this conversation? And for example, for us, I've always felt I can add more value on the back end once the divorce is final.

We know where everything's at and we know what you're, I always talk about that puzzle, that financial puzzle where we get all these pieces, we finally know what the pieces are, but now we gotta figure out how we put 'em together. But there's also, for example, what's called A-C-D-F-A or Certified Divorce Financial Analyst that might fit in there somewhere as well.

who does that initial analysis to kinda help make some of those decisions or do a little more break even analysis, maybe you would call it. But you can talk about how financial advisors fit into this process.

Jill Lowe: Absolutely. I think even if you're not in the collaborative process, I think it's always prudent and wise to consult with a financial planner or a financial professional before making a decision because I really feel like the client needs to understand, needs to be educated.

we can't undo something after an agreement's been signed. So if they go and meet with a professional after the agreement has been finalized, and then the financial professional's why'd you agree to this? You should have asked for X, Y, and z.

I can't go back and change it, it's done. So it's better before agreeing to consult with somebody. And I really feel like it's better to do that as you're evaluating different settlement options. Even in a litigation process. If you're in mediation and you're like I'm not ready to sign yet, but I wanna speak with a financial professional before.

So I really do feel like it's important to consult with these professionals before signing a document. Sometimes clients even meet with a financial professional before initiating a divorce as well.

I think budgets are extremely important in a divorce. in the collaborative process. We work on budgets post-divorce because I think it's really helpful for someone to see what it, when you have your budget and you have a certain amount of cash or investments.

How long is this money going to last me? And I think that's extremely important. the financial professional can come in many different times, help in many different ways, running projections, evaluating retirement, evaluating budgets. They can play a very crucial role in structuring the final settlement.

Eric Blake: One thing I was gonna point out to if our, for our audience, if you wanna go back to I, they believe it was episode 41 with Neil Pache, he is a coach, financial coach for women who are, and as he said, he actually works a lot of women before they actually make this divorce decision and helping them prepare to what are the expectations of going into this versus being caught off guard.

So that would be one suggestion for our audience. But one of the things you and I talked about, kinda referencing your point about. Especially for our audience who are kinda in this retirement phase of life or getting close to it, or maybe already in a retirement of having an advisor who does specialize in retirement income planning.

Where we're also looking at things like social security, and as you said, if you've got a budget, if you know what your expenses are. We gotta make sure you got enough assets to generate the income to cover that. Whether that is from social security or pension, you may, there may be splitting of a pension in the conversation as well.

Again, all these different pieces of the puzzle as we talked about and how do we put those together. But if you're in the age 55 plus and you're close to retirement or in retirement, making sure that financial professional has that expertise to help you understand what your options are.

If you're not able to return to the workforce, and again, everybody's situation is different, but if we're really looking at relying on assets. For covering your lifestyle, you gotta make sure you know what that's gonna look like.

Jill Lowe: Yeah. And I think that also beco comes in very helpful when evaluating an ask for maintenance or alimony as well, because someone can understand, okay, we have these IRAs, or we have a 401k or a pension.

And really when it starts to get divided. You can also help them with, okay, you're gonna have to start taking the mandatory withdrawals as well, or we're gonna get this pension. What is the net that you're going to receive every month when the spouse retires? And so it all becomes very crucial when evaluating that, because sometimes people will come to me and they say, I need this amount of money for this amount of time, and.

The other spouse who's working might also want to look at retirement, right? They don't wanna have an obligation to pay the maintenance at a certain amount for a very long period of time. They're like, wait a second, I wanna retire as well. So when we get in those situations, it becomes very extremely helpful to, number one, know a budget.

When we are at retirement or near retirement or at their age, when they can start taking the distributions, when they can start, when they will start receiving social security. And really when you analyze it that way, it can provide some comfort to the spouse who says, I need.

Alimony or maintenance at this amount because then they see that they can get it from other resources and then it allows the working spouse to achieve some of their retirement goals as well and not have to work for, so many more years to pay

Eric Blake: Is there one thing that you feel like she should do today to begin protecting your financial future?

Jill Lowe: I think education is probably the most critical tool that someone has. And that looks like a number of different ways, right? Education in terms of what does our state look like, becoming educated and informed

in terms of what the future might look like, right? Budgets, income, and then education with a financial planner and sitting down and looking at. The assets, retirement. How can I save for my future? So it's really, it's education. It's to anyone who's out there, I would say go and get the knowledge and the information.

Don't be silent and don't be blind because you really. need to know what you need to know

Eric Blake: and I think one of the things I think you and I have, regardless of whether divorce is in your future or not, 'cause you may not know, unfortunately, you may be 10 years from now, 15 years from now.

You might be 50 today and all of a sudden find yourself retired at 65. That's one of the highest increasing percentages of divorce is 65 plus. But start that process now of being involved in the conversations, making sure that if there are meetings going on with a financial advisor, that you're participating in those conversations today.

There's nothing like being prepared in advance versus finding yourself right in the middle of a catastrophe.

Jill Lowe: Yeah. And you also brought up a good point that I had thought about as we were preparing for this as well, is when you are in a gray divorce not only are you concerned about retirement and the division of these.

Estate, but you're also concerned about health related too, because as you age, there's more health related concerns, and so making sure you address health insurance costs, health insurance, premiums in general, and just knowing all the different options, terms of whether it's COBRA coverage or.

Going into the marketplace or just having all of that information it becomes more important I think in the great divorces as well.

Eric Blake: I think that's a great point. That's again, referring back to episode 41 when Neil Pache, who founded a group called the Divorce Transition Professionals, which I'm a part of, where we've got access to so many tremendous resources, insurance professionals, attorneys.

And that's one of the biggest things I can encourage again, is just the resources. Just like you said, education and not knowing where the resources are, who to ask.

You may not know the answer, but you need to know who to ask, and I think that can be hugely valuable. Before we wrap up, I wanna make sure that our listeners know how to connect with you and learn more about your work.

Jill Lowe: Sure. You can connect with me. I have a website low collaborative law.com. I also have a Facebook page.

Instagram is JLo attorney. collaborative Divorce, Texas. Is a great website with a lot of resources. And there also lists of professionals in all the areas of Texas where you can look for an attorney who's collaborative, trained, you can look for a neutral financial professional who's collaborative, trained

But it's a great place to start if you wanna learn more. Look for a professional in your area. I will say the collaborative process is used in most other states as well, so if any of your listeners are out there or in Florida, California, Alabama, any other state, just doing a simple search, they'll be able to find a collaborative professional as well to consult with and learn more about how the process could be helpful to them if they're finding themselves in a divorce.

Eric Blake: Oh, that's perfect, and we will definitely share all those links and resources in the show notes for this episode. This has been awesome. I really appreciate your time, Jill. If you've experienced divorce and you wanna make sure your retirement plan still supports your life going forward, we'd love to have a conversation with you.

You can visit get my simply retirement roadmap.com to schedule your free retirement assessment. We'll walk you through how to make smart decisions around income, investments, taxes, so that you can move forward with clarity and confidence. That is it for today's episode. As a reminder for all the links and resources again that we have mentioned in today's episode, you can visit the Simply Retirement podcast.com.

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Until next time, please remember, retirement is not the end of the road. It's the start of a new journey.

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